1. Coaches are in good form. With a playing list that has been decimated forward and impacted back, the coaching crew were able to fashion a style of play that gave the team a chance to win. This is the most that can be asked of them. There have been “critics” of the line coaches & Sam since the start of the season, however, there hasn’t appeared to credit given when it has been earned. The coaches made sunshine out of a handful of hay.
2. Ugly wins build belief. After a game where we had a scoring efficiency of 67% and kicking 14 goals, to then win by kicking 8 goals for the game and only two after half time, should develop a level of experience to draw on in the coming weeks and years. The obvious factor here was kicking straight early, so we were able to create scoreboard pressure and not have to chase the game over the last three quarters.
3. The “two-minute drill” is a work in progress. In the NFL, teams talk of moving the ball to score in the last two minutes; for AFL teams it’s more often defending a lead in the last 2 minutes that has greater focus. Looking at the game from the time Amon had his shot at goal with just over two minutes to go – he took his shot from about 55m out meaning that he had to kick it 60+m. This means that the key area to “compete” is the effectively the length of the goal square. In this situation, it is easier to push back into the pack rather than try to rush forward. Looking at Amon’s kick, it was up to Meek & Gunston to provide the tall contest and either kill the contest or force a score if the kick was to fall short. Unfortunately, the Saints were able to take an uncontested mark. This then lead to a chain of possessions that the mids & defenders were able to break up as the Saints looked to attack from the furthest part of the ground for them. Ginnivan was able to mark closer to the wing than the F50 line and with an ability to kick 40-50m at best, the next contest going forward was about 30m out of goal. Again, it was up to Gunston & Meek to make a contest – Gunston made it to the drop zone, however Meek remained 10-20m behind the play; a distance that Ginnivan was never going to reach. This then allowed the Saints to swing the ball to the outer side looking to open the ground, however again, the mids/defenders forced them back to the broadcast wing and go down the line to a contesting marking contest that was killed. Then, it was a replica of last week with stoppage contests killing the clock. The fundamental issue being that if we could have killed the contest in our F50 from either of the two opportunities, the pressure may not have been as intense for the last 30 seconds.
4. Romance is for novels and debuts but then the harsh reality bites. When you look at the performance of Dear, you will see the need for his apprenticeship to be continued at Box Hill. Leaving aside the Hardwick contest for the moment, there were a couple of other incidents that highlight the work he has to develop in this game. In the first quarter, matched up on Bonner, who had spread to the flank for an outlet kick, Dear went to take the mark and overplayed the spot allowing Bonner to run on and then take the one-two to hit up King for his early goal. Dear was unable to go with him even at a distance. A similar incident occurred later in the game. Similarly, in the 3rd quarter when the Saints had momentum running with them, Dear had taken a nice mark about 40m out, but rather than going back to take the shot, he gave a handball to CMac on the fly who missed the shot. As much as I’m a CMac believer, he’s no Sicily, Amon or Scrimshaw with a long bomb, so Dear had to take the responsibility for the moment rather than trying to be a “team player”. The point of this discussion is whether it is better for Dear to learn his game at AFL or VFL level. If it was 2 years ago, I think he’d be carried as was Kosi, but for where the team is now, I think the apprenticeship has a "trade school" element to it rather than being an "on-the-job" situation.
5. Need to use momentum when we have it. There was no doubt that as good as we were in the first quarter using the early momentum, the same couldn’t be said of the second when we had 16 I50 for 2 goals. Fortunately, the Saints were equally as inefficient when they had the momentum in the 3rd quarter.
6. Hardwick is the go-to player replacing Burgoyne. One thing that has become apparent is that if Sam thinks we have hole to fill, Hardwick has become the modern version of Shaun Burgoyne. In the last quarter, when under pressure deep in the back line, Impey scrambled a bomb out which looked to be a marking opportunity for the Saints, only for Dimma to spoil the opportunity and kill it putting it over the boundary allowing us to reset. The capacity to swing forward and back within and between quarters is a skill set that few possess.
7. Goals don’t create confidence for Watson. Being able to pick off a handball interception to set up CMac’s goal in the opening quarter gave Watson the boost he needed. As is often said in most sports, it’s not your “one wood” that brings you into the game.
Observations:
• Having shots at goal from within the centre corridor and within 30m of the goals certainly assists with accuracy. Aside from the early goals to Meek & Watson that were long shots, the other goals came from within the corridor. The other aspect was that we were able get some crumbing goals which had been few and far between in the early rounds.
• No need to be “chirpy” when you haven’t sealed the deal. For a developing team, to fly the flag or get in the face of the opposition, it may be better to wait to ensure that you have completed your part of the deal. Watson after getting his 50m penalty, gives Wilke an All-Australian defender a tap on the bum and similarly, others get stuck into Marshall for his miskick to Ginnivan – neither Watson or Ginni made the Saints pay.
• Meek made further progression with his marking being this week’s next step. There will be “Meek moments” just as there will be “Frostball” e.g. taking the ball out of the ruck early in the 2nd quarter trying to score from a throw in – don’t confuse ambition with ability.
• The Amon/Impey/Mitchell/Breust progression was a set play that Amon had tried to make in the North game when he made the miskick to Sicily and was intercepted. This is a watch for the remainder of the season to see how often it is attempted and rate of success.
• CMac’s on the run banana – this was the third (or 4th) attempt for the season (Dees, Pies, Dogs) with the Dogs’ game being the only successful outcome. The need to develop his left foot is probably going to be watch as the strike rate isn’t in his favour for the moment and I’m not sure that it is the percentage play.
• D’Ambrosio had a very mixed day with his decision-making and execution ranging from lows to some defensive highs.
• The role of Nash since the return of Day has allowed him more opportunities to be assertive in the midfield contest. Again, his I50 pass from the centre square to Watson in the 3rd quarter was elite as Watson didn’t have to miss a step and goal easily. In fact, his ruck role may have lead to the early Saint sub of Hayes which I think strategically assisted us as it meant one less tall to cover.
• Weddle provided another attacking defensive role this week, although trying mark 4 deep in the pack late in the game, it may have been better to go the punch.
• Mackenzie looks to have adopted the defensive wing role that Morrison had been playing.
• On TV it was hard to tell, but the time put into Hill and Henry meant the Saints weren’t able to run and gun which was part of Lyon’s lament in his post-game presser.
Starting 4:
1st Qrt. Nash (11), Day (13), Newcombe (12)
(Moore went to CBA in the 1st qrt.)
2nd Qrt. Newcombe, Day, Worpel (14)
3rd Qrt. Nash, Newcombe, Worpel
4th Qrt. Nash, Day, Newcombe
(Meek 18, Moore 6, Dear 1)
Coach killer (albeit self-inflicted* this week):
Dear spoiling Hardwick would’ve had every coach looking at the replay to see if they had seen what had happened. Hardwick had shown the forward craft (or cheated) to be completely on his own. For Dear not to be aware of where his teammate was just demonstrated his “greenness”.
(* When you pick a second game player as your second key forward, you have to take the good with the bad – see above.)
Issue for the week:
Having shown the capacity to mix it with the middleweights over the past fortnight, coming into a (supposed) heavyweight contender this week, the onus will be to provide a four-quarter contest and not allow previous bad habits to return i.e. a run of goals.
Mick has provided a beautiful summary and hard not to agree with his points. It's so important to stay strong and to stick with this path we've chosen. There will be rough days but there will also be some nourishment, which the [past two seeks has provided our team and club. This win was doubly impressive to think we were without our two tall forwards and skipper. A few thoughts:
1. There are lots of positives from the past two weeks, but arguably, the biggest factor has been the reduction in catastrophic errors. If you reflect on our heaviest defeats, they have been characterised by a very high rate of bad errors - in the Sydney game we had two 2 goal turn arounds and gifted them the ball on so many occasions, and in the Geelong and Melbourne games we had a very high rate of unforced mistakes. It’s hard to pinpoint why that is, but it’s been a very significant factor in the last two weeks.
2. While we’ve had a couple of great wins this past fortnight, we can’t sustain a forward line that has Calsher and Gunner as our marking options. Hopefully, Lewis and/or Chol are available this week. As Port go with the three tall defenders – Alir, Ratugolea and Zerk-Thatcher, it will be important to not be out marked and to bring the ball to ground and give our smalls a chance.
3. There is still some concern when our forward line includes Punky and Gunner, as neither is able to apply any ground level pressure. The choice of Breust as sub was an excellent one and he played a key role when he did come on. How we use Jack and Punky for the remainder of the season will be an interesting watch.
4. Yes, Calsher did run out of gas (you do wonder just how much last week took out of him emotionally) and he had that blooper moment with Dimma’s mark, but he again looked good. The feature of his 2023 season was the rapid development he showed, in what was his first season in the talent pathway. While his selection has been born out of necessity, his form with Box Hill and his two senior games have far surpassed expectation and are really a continuation of that development and improvement that he showed in 2203 with Sandy Dragons. He doesn’t yet have the tank or the body, but has given us a glimpse of the player he could become and it’s hard not to be excited about that. I suspect that the remainder of the season will be a mix of Box Hill and seniors for Calsher, but more so with Box Hill, especially as they are a reasonable chance of playing seniors.
5. I know this sounds like a broken record, but what is Finn’s role in the team. He’s not been playing as a tagger on the best opposition midfielder or as a defensive forward. It seems that he’s been playing a mix of half forward and wing, but neither his ball use nor his ball winning can justify his continued selection in such a role. There just has to be a better option. Perhaps CJ is his replacement when CJ is ready, though CJ would have to be a chance of replacing Massimo, whose kicking execution unfortunately doesn’t match his reputation.
6. Port at Adelaide Oval is just about the toughest test in footy at the moment. They may also be strengthened by the return of Rozee. However, their weapons are very much a known quantity – heavily reliant on Dixon and Rioli up forward (Frost and Hardwick seem the logical match ups there), Houston is their rebounder and they have that terrific mix of midfielders, headlined by the big three.
On Finn, I suspect he had a run with role on Hill (& Henry), so may have played his role. I agree when CJ proves his durability, the wing option may develop a more offensive focus, however CJ is also sound defensively with his athleticism & speed.
A strong performance and they won in a different way to the prior week against the Dogs.
This was a fascinating watch. It has been a long time the Hawks have led from start to finish against a decent opponent.
The midfield was critical and Day was the key. Meek was better than Marshall who despite having 12 clearances was not involved in any scoring chains - those clearances went nowhere. Overall we beat them around the ball.
Backline held up very well but the Saints were struggling to get the ball in there with any system so Scrim, Serong, Weddle, Amon and co had the advantage.
Loved Watson - so quick and precise and Ginnivan - who seemed to be everywhere.
Would have liked Breust to come on for Maginness instead of Dear.
Last year the game was over at quarter time and Port destroyed us with Rozee and Butters leading the charge. No Rozee this time but they are formidable. A good test.
With Calsher u can see he’s got it and with development will be a beaut. Contrast to DGB. I sort of wonder if the smashing Lynch and co dealt out a couple of years ago has crushed him or if he never really had it?
While Marshall did have a high number of clearances, a large number of these were ineffective scrubby kicks that rarely travelled far and were rarely to StKilda's advantage. The stats differential between Marshall and Lloyd didn't give a fair presentation of their respective games. Even though Lloyd is not young (26), he's very young in terms of games played, so you'd think that as he plays more, we'll see improvement, hopefully moving beyond the 'meat and potatoes' classification! In the past two weeks, he's come up against two of the best rucks in the game and acquitted himself very well. Lloyd's assumption of the ruck role, together with Will Day's return seem to have been important factors in the lift in our midfield group.
What was learnt:
1. Coaches are in good form. With a playing list that has been decimated forward and impacted back, the coaching crew were able to fashion a style of play that gave the team a chance to win. This is the most that can be asked of them. There have been “critics” of the line coaches & Sam since the start of the season, however, there hasn’t appeared to credit given when it has been earned. The coaches made sunshine out of a handful of hay.
2. Ugly wins build belief. After a game where we had a scoring efficiency of 67% and kicking 14 goals, to then win by kicking 8 goals for the game and only two after half time, should develop a level of experience to draw on in the coming weeks and years. The obvious factor here was kicking straight early, so we were able to create scoreboard pressure and not have to chase the game over the last three quarters.
3. The “two-minute drill” is a work in progress. In the NFL, teams talk of moving the ball to score in the last two minutes; for AFL teams it’s more often defending a lead in the last 2 minutes that has greater focus. Looking at the game from the time Amon had his shot at goal with just over two minutes to go – he took his shot from about 55m out meaning that he had to kick it 60+m. This means that the key area to “compete” is the effectively the length of the goal square. In this situation, it is easier to push back into the pack rather than try to rush forward. Looking at Amon’s kick, it was up to Meek & Gunston to provide the tall contest and either kill the contest or force a score if the kick was to fall short. Unfortunately, the Saints were able to take an uncontested mark. This then lead to a chain of possessions that the mids & defenders were able to break up as the Saints looked to attack from the furthest part of the ground for them. Ginnivan was able to mark closer to the wing than the F50 line and with an ability to kick 40-50m at best, the next contest going forward was about 30m out of goal. Again, it was up to Gunston & Meek to make a contest – Gunston made it to the drop zone, however Meek remained 10-20m behind the play; a distance that Ginnivan was never going to reach. This then allowed the Saints to swing the ball to the outer side looking to open the ground, however again, the mids/defenders forced them back to the broadcast wing and go down the line to a contesting marking contest that was killed. Then, it was a replica of last week with stoppage contests killing the clock. The fundamental issue being that if we could have killed the contest in our F50 from either of the two opportunities, the pressure may not have been as intense for the last 30 seconds.
4. Romance is for novels and debuts but then the harsh reality bites. When you look at the performance of Dear, you will see the need for his apprenticeship to be continued at Box Hill. Leaving aside the Hardwick contest for the moment, there were a couple of other incidents that highlight the work he has to develop in this game. In the first quarter, matched up on Bonner, who had spread to the flank for an outlet kick, Dear went to take the mark and overplayed the spot allowing Bonner to run on and then take the one-two to hit up King for his early goal. Dear was unable to go with him even at a distance. A similar incident occurred later in the game. Similarly, in the 3rd quarter when the Saints had momentum running with them, Dear had taken a nice mark about 40m out, but rather than going back to take the shot, he gave a handball to CMac on the fly who missed the shot. As much as I’m a CMac believer, he’s no Sicily, Amon or Scrimshaw with a long bomb, so Dear had to take the responsibility for the moment rather than trying to be a “team player”. The point of this discussion is whether it is better for Dear to learn his game at AFL or VFL level. If it was 2 years ago, I think he’d be carried as was Kosi, but for where the team is now, I think the apprenticeship has a "trade school" element to it rather than being an "on-the-job" situation.
5. Need to use momentum when we have it. There was no doubt that as good as we were in the first quarter using the early momentum, the same couldn’t be said of the second when we had 16 I50 for 2 goals. Fortunately, the Saints were equally as inefficient when they had the momentum in the 3rd quarter.
6. Hardwick is the go-to player replacing Burgoyne. One thing that has become apparent is that if Sam thinks we have hole to fill, Hardwick has become the modern version of Shaun Burgoyne. In the last quarter, when under pressure deep in the back line, Impey scrambled a bomb out which looked to be a marking opportunity for the Saints, only for Dimma to spoil the opportunity and kill it putting it over the boundary allowing us to reset. The capacity to swing forward and back within and between quarters is a skill set that few possess.
7. Goals don’t create confidence for Watson. Being able to pick off a handball interception to set up CMac’s goal in the opening quarter gave Watson the boost he needed. As is often said in most sports, it’s not your “one wood” that brings you into the game.
Observations:
• Having shots at goal from within the centre corridor and within 30m of the goals certainly assists with accuracy. Aside from the early goals to Meek & Watson that were long shots, the other goals came from within the corridor. The other aspect was that we were able get some crumbing goals which had been few and far between in the early rounds.
• No need to be “chirpy” when you haven’t sealed the deal. For a developing team, to fly the flag or get in the face of the opposition, it may be better to wait to ensure that you have completed your part of the deal. Watson after getting his 50m penalty, gives Wilke an All-Australian defender a tap on the bum and similarly, others get stuck into Marshall for his miskick to Ginnivan – neither Watson or Ginni made the Saints pay.
• Meek made further progression with his marking being this week’s next step. There will be “Meek moments” just as there will be “Frostball” e.g. taking the ball out of the ruck early in the 2nd quarter trying to score from a throw in – don’t confuse ambition with ability.
• The Amon/Impey/Mitchell/Breust progression was a set play that Amon had tried to make in the North game when he made the miskick to Sicily and was intercepted. This is a watch for the remainder of the season to see how often it is attempted and rate of success.
• CMac’s on the run banana – this was the third (or 4th) attempt for the season (Dees, Pies, Dogs) with the Dogs’ game being the only successful outcome. The need to develop his left foot is probably going to be watch as the strike rate isn’t in his favour for the moment and I’m not sure that it is the percentage play.
• D’Ambrosio had a very mixed day with his decision-making and execution ranging from lows to some defensive highs.
• The role of Nash since the return of Day has allowed him more opportunities to be assertive in the midfield contest. Again, his I50 pass from the centre square to Watson in the 3rd quarter was elite as Watson didn’t have to miss a step and goal easily. In fact, his ruck role may have lead to the early Saint sub of Hayes which I think strategically assisted us as it meant one less tall to cover.
• Weddle provided another attacking defensive role this week, although trying mark 4 deep in the pack late in the game, it may have been better to go the punch.
• Mackenzie looks to have adopted the defensive wing role that Morrison had been playing.
• On TV it was hard to tell, but the time put into Hill and Henry meant the Saints weren’t able to run and gun which was part of Lyon’s lament in his post-game presser.
Starting 4:
1st Qrt. Nash (11), Day (13), Newcombe (12)
(Moore went to CBA in the 1st qrt.)
2nd Qrt. Newcombe, Day, Worpel (14)
3rd Qrt. Nash, Newcombe, Worpel
4th Qrt. Nash, Day, Newcombe
(Meek 18, Moore 6, Dear 1)
Coach killer (albeit self-inflicted* this week):
Dear spoiling Hardwick would’ve had every coach looking at the replay to see if they had seen what had happened. Hardwick had shown the forward craft (or cheated) to be completely on his own. For Dear not to be aware of where his teammate was just demonstrated his “greenness”.
(* When you pick a second game player as your second key forward, you have to take the good with the bad – see above.)
Issue for the week:
Having shown the capacity to mix it with the middleweights over the past fortnight, coming into a (supposed) heavyweight contender this week, the onus will be to provide a four-quarter contest and not allow previous bad habits to return i.e. a run of goals.
Mick has provided a beautiful summary and hard not to agree with his points. It's so important to stay strong and to stick with this path we've chosen. There will be rough days but there will also be some nourishment, which the [past two seeks has provided our team and club. This win was doubly impressive to think we were without our two tall forwards and skipper. A few thoughts:
1. There are lots of positives from the past two weeks, but arguably, the biggest factor has been the reduction in catastrophic errors. If you reflect on our heaviest defeats, they have been characterised by a very high rate of bad errors - in the Sydney game we had two 2 goal turn arounds and gifted them the ball on so many occasions, and in the Geelong and Melbourne games we had a very high rate of unforced mistakes. It’s hard to pinpoint why that is, but it’s been a very significant factor in the last two weeks.
2. While we’ve had a couple of great wins this past fortnight, we can’t sustain a forward line that has Calsher and Gunner as our marking options. Hopefully, Lewis and/or Chol are available this week. As Port go with the three tall defenders – Alir, Ratugolea and Zerk-Thatcher, it will be important to not be out marked and to bring the ball to ground and give our smalls a chance.
3. There is still some concern when our forward line includes Punky and Gunner, as neither is able to apply any ground level pressure. The choice of Breust as sub was an excellent one and he played a key role when he did come on. How we use Jack and Punky for the remainder of the season will be an interesting watch.
4. Yes, Calsher did run out of gas (you do wonder just how much last week took out of him emotionally) and he had that blooper moment with Dimma’s mark, but he again looked good. The feature of his 2023 season was the rapid development he showed, in what was his first season in the talent pathway. While his selection has been born out of necessity, his form with Box Hill and his two senior games have far surpassed expectation and are really a continuation of that development and improvement that he showed in 2203 with Sandy Dragons. He doesn’t yet have the tank or the body, but has given us a glimpse of the player he could become and it’s hard not to be excited about that. I suspect that the remainder of the season will be a mix of Box Hill and seniors for Calsher, but more so with Box Hill, especially as they are a reasonable chance of playing seniors.
5. I know this sounds like a broken record, but what is Finn’s role in the team. He’s not been playing as a tagger on the best opposition midfielder or as a defensive forward. It seems that he’s been playing a mix of half forward and wing, but neither his ball use nor his ball winning can justify his continued selection in such a role. There just has to be a better option. Perhaps CJ is his replacement when CJ is ready, though CJ would have to be a chance of replacing Massimo, whose kicking execution unfortunately doesn’t match his reputation.
6. Port at Adelaide Oval is just about the toughest test in footy at the moment. They may also be strengthened by the return of Rozee. However, their weapons are very much a known quantity – heavily reliant on Dixon and Rioli up forward (Frost and Hardwick seem the logical match ups there), Houston is their rebounder and they have that terrific mix of midfielders, headlined by the big three.
On Finn, I suspect he had a run with role on Hill (& Henry), so may have played his role. I agree when CJ proves his durability, the wing option may develop a more offensive focus, however CJ is also sound defensively with his athleticism & speed.
A strong performance and they won in a different way to the prior week against the Dogs.
This was a fascinating watch. It has been a long time the Hawks have led from start to finish against a decent opponent.
The midfield was critical and Day was the key. Meek was better than Marshall who despite having 12 clearances was not involved in any scoring chains - those clearances went nowhere. Overall we beat them around the ball.
Backline held up very well but the Saints were struggling to get the ball in there with any system so Scrim, Serong, Weddle, Amon and co had the advantage.
Loved Watson - so quick and precise and Ginnivan - who seemed to be everywhere.
Would have liked Breust to come on for Maginness instead of Dear.
Last year the game was over at quarter time and Port destroyed us with Rozee and Butters leading the charge. No Rozee this time but they are formidable. A good test.
With Calsher u can see he’s got it and with development will be a beaut. Contrast to DGB. I sort of wonder if the smashing Lynch and co dealt out a couple of years ago has crushed him or if he never really had it?
Coaches' votes:
5. Newcombe Amon*
4. Marshall* Newcombe
3. Impey Marshall*
2. Amon* Scrimshaw
1. Steele WIlkie
* may be swapped
While Marshall did have a high number of clearances, a large number of these were ineffective scrubby kicks that rarely travelled far and were rarely to StKilda's advantage. The stats differential between Marshall and Lloyd didn't give a fair presentation of their respective games. Even though Lloyd is not young (26), he's very young in terms of games played, so you'd think that as he plays more, we'll see improvement, hopefully moving beyond the 'meat and potatoes' classification! In the past two weeks, he's come up against two of the best rucks in the game and acquitted himself very well. Lloyd's assumption of the ruck role, together with Will Day's return seem to have been important factors in the lift in our midfield group.
Agree with this. The numbers are misleading. Meek hade the more impactful game.
And Day is the key ingredient in providing added pressure and finishing class. He plays an inside/outside role that is hard to replicate.