SANFL podcast featuring chats with Ryan & McCabe who went to school together at Sacred Heart College (same catholic school system as Assumption College albeit city based).
Thanks for sharing the podcast Mick. Both lads seem really level headed. Bodie could be a ripper given he got the better of Harley and that he was able to think through the best strategy to do that. Sis could do with some good decision makers around him.
The Hawks had ample chances to select Will Lorenz but I guess they feel he is either not up to it or more likely they have enough mids of his type who are ahead of him that need a crack at the big time. I hope this doesn’t turn out to be another “Josh Kennedy” heartache for the fans. Hoping in 2 years Will does enough to warrant a trade to the Hawks.
I suspect it is the second option Michelle, I feel the Hawks are quite happy with their midfield mix, and with players like Connor Macdonald, Cam Mackenzie, Henry Hustwaite and co unable to break into a midfield role, they obviously feel there are enough of that type of player on their list.
Trying to unpack the intricacies of the draft & draft strategy.
With Wingard going back on to the primary list in the PSD (which wasn't well advertised & looked to be an overnight call) consisting of three picks, brought me to question why and how the machinations of the Hawks' draft strategy was developed. With some insights provided by @LiamMc99, I have come to the following observations and it is by no means a "professional" explanation as I confess to learning on the run.
The starting point is to understand the structure of the playing list as the foundation of the draft process which is:
1. Clubs can have up to a maximum list of 42 players which consists of:
a) Primary List - this group has to have a minimum of 36 players and no more than 38 on this part of the list; and then
b) Rookie list - this group is potentially the balance of the 42 which means up to a maximum of 6 rookies. It is not compulsory to have any rookies, so a club could theoretically go in thin with a list of 36 primary listed players minimum.
(Note: Clubs can also have 2 Category B rookies which sit outside of the primary/rookie list number of 42.)
The starting point for the National Draft
Going into the National Draft, a club can only have as many picks as they have spots on their Primary List which could take the list to the 38 maximum. With the outcomes of the trade period, along with the upgrading of Newcombe to the Primary List, we had 34 on the Primary List. This would have meant that we would have 4 picks in the draft, which would not be unusual for many clubs.
For us there was the other factor that had to be accounted for - the points needed to cover our father-son nominations. This meant that we needed to access more picks for points in the National Draft, hence we delisted Wingard and Stephens which then allowed us potentially 6 picks, but importantly accrue the points as we weren't to know where either McCabe or Dear were to go. The other pick points variable being whether we were to take Tew Jiath as a potential NGA pick.
On draft night
We started with Picks 4, 44, 47, 49, 62 & 63 (note from here on the pick positions are not exact as they moved on the run.)
Taking Watson with our 1st pick, left us with 5 picks - 42. 44, 45, 55 & 56 - to cover the remainder of the draft.
When we matched the McCabe bid at 19, we were left with four live picks - 46, 52, 53, 73.
We then took Ryan with 46, traded out one of the 52 to Port, which then lead to the Dear pick at 56 after some further trading back.
This I think left us with the last pick which we passed on - the end of the night was pretty quickly cut short by the CEO.
Pre-Season Draft
In deciding to pass on our last picks, clubs I take it are then able to nominate if they will use it in the PSD to put a player on the primary list rather than taking another rookie pick, hence Wingard going on the primary list. Having a 30 year old as a rookie may have been pushing the envelope!
With the unknown of where McCabe and Dear were to go, along with potentially Tew Jiath, I think that this explains why when it announced that Wingard and Stephens were to he re-rookied rather than either of them being re-listed at the time of the decision.
My take aways from all of this, which I'll undoubtedly forget or confuse, particularly with the points system, FS and Academy picks to be reviewed are as follows:
1. The primary list number is the basis of any draft analysis - the potential picks have to make up the difference to match up to the maximum primary list number, acknowledging the requirement to take 3 picks in the draft or rookie upgrade.
2. If the club has FS or NGA nominee, then the points needed for these provides for a further complexity as to the number of picks a club needs. This explains why GCS this year ended up with the plethora of mid/lower end picks (FYI - they started with 6 picks and on the night traded into 10 picks in total, but ended up taking 4 players in National Draft; re-drafted Sam Day PSD; 3 rookies & passed on their last two rookie picks).
Does anyone know whether we have a spot available in the PSD for Ethan Phillips? I have heard conflicting stories on the spots available. Seems odd if we don't because I thought he was lined up for a PSD spot
It is said that late converts are more rabid in their support of the cause that they come to - chat with Cheri Dear on Calsher's background - SEN Breakfast
Bodie Ryan is a good pick-up and looks like he has some very nice attributes.
Not usually a fan of the Father/Son obsession it can be a double edged sword but Dear was a must draft and I am glad they brought him in at #56. Seems about right.
His dad played about multiple seasons in the VFL reserves, so I am sure he can be under no illusions.
SANFL podcast featuring chats with Ryan & McCabe who went to school together at Sacred Heart College (same catholic school system as Assumption College albeit city based).
https://podcasts.apple.com/au/podcast/south-aussie-select-2023-episode-2/id1593572119?i=1000634218362
Love this
Thanks for sharing the podcast Mick. Both lads seem really level headed. Bodie could be a ripper given he got the better of Harley and that he was able to think through the best strategy to do that. Sis could do with some good decision makers around him.
The Hawks had ample chances to select Will Lorenz but I guess they feel he is either not up to it or more likely they have enough mids of his type who are ahead of him that need a crack at the big time. I hope this doesn’t turn out to be another “Josh Kennedy” heartache for the fans. Hoping in 2 years Will does enough to warrant a trade to the Hawks.
I suspect it is the second option Michelle, I feel the Hawks are quite happy with their midfield mix, and with players like Connor Macdonald, Cam Mackenzie, Henry Hustwaite and co unable to break into a midfield role, they obviously feel there are enough of that type of player on their list.
Trying to unpack the intricacies of the draft & draft strategy.
With Wingard going back on to the primary list in the PSD (which wasn't well advertised & looked to be an overnight call) consisting of three picks, brought me to question why and how the machinations of the Hawks' draft strategy was developed. With some insights provided by @LiamMc99, I have come to the following observations and it is by no means a "professional" explanation as I confess to learning on the run.
The starting point is to understand the structure of the playing list as the foundation of the draft process which is:
1. Clubs can have up to a maximum list of 42 players which consists of:
a) Primary List - this group has to have a minimum of 36 players and no more than 38 on this part of the list; and then
b) Rookie list - this group is potentially the balance of the 42 which means up to a maximum of 6 rookies. It is not compulsory to have any rookies, so a club could theoretically go in thin with a list of 36 primary listed players minimum.
(Note: Clubs can also have 2 Category B rookies which sit outside of the primary/rookie list number of 42.)
The starting point for the National Draft
Going into the National Draft, a club can only have as many picks as they have spots on their Primary List which could take the list to the 38 maximum. With the outcomes of the trade period, along with the upgrading of Newcombe to the Primary List, we had 34 on the Primary List. This would have meant that we would have 4 picks in the draft, which would not be unusual for many clubs.
For us there was the other factor that had to be accounted for - the points needed to cover our father-son nominations. This meant that we needed to access more picks for points in the National Draft, hence we delisted Wingard and Stephens which then allowed us potentially 6 picks, but importantly accrue the points as we weren't to know where either McCabe or Dear were to go. The other pick points variable being whether we were to take Tew Jiath as a potential NGA pick.
On draft night
We started with Picks 4, 44, 47, 49, 62 & 63 (note from here on the pick positions are not exact as they moved on the run.)
Taking Watson with our 1st pick, left us with 5 picks - 42. 44, 45, 55 & 56 - to cover the remainder of the draft.
When we matched the McCabe bid at 19, we were left with four live picks - 46, 52, 53, 73.
We then took Ryan with 46, traded out one of the 52 to Port, which then lead to the Dear pick at 56 after some further trading back.
This I think left us with the last pick which we passed on - the end of the night was pretty quickly cut short by the CEO.
Pre-Season Draft
In deciding to pass on our last picks, clubs I take it are then able to nominate if they will use it in the PSD to put a player on the primary list rather than taking another rookie pick, hence Wingard going on the primary list. Having a 30 year old as a rookie may have been pushing the envelope!
With the unknown of where McCabe and Dear were to go, along with potentially Tew Jiath, I think that this explains why when it announced that Wingard and Stephens were to he re-rookied rather than either of them being re-listed at the time of the decision.
My take aways from all of this, which I'll undoubtedly forget or confuse, particularly with the points system, FS and Academy picks to be reviewed are as follows:
1. The primary list number is the basis of any draft analysis - the potential picks have to make up the difference to match up to the maximum primary list number, acknowledging the requirement to take 3 picks in the draft or rookie upgrade.
2. If the club has FS or NGA nominee, then the points needed for these provides for a further complexity as to the number of picks a club needs. This explains why GCS this year ended up with the plethora of mid/lower end picks (FYI - they started with 6 picks and on the night traded into 10 picks in total, but ended up taking 4 players in National Draft; re-drafted Sam Day PSD; 3 rookies & passed on their last two rookie picks).
Does anyone know whether we have a spot available in the PSD for Ethan Phillips? I have heard conflicting stories on the spots available. Seems odd if we don't because I thought he was lined up for a PSD spot
It is said that late converts are more rabid in their support of the cause that they come to - chat with Cheri Dear on Calsher's background - SEN Breakfast
https://open.spotify.com/episode/3FJST1tThWGqUFtqkLdfUN?si=BSq9SzB7R8ShYwQ8s68m9w
Bodie Ryan is a good pick-up and looks like he has some very nice attributes.
Not usually a fan of the Father/Son obsession it can be a double edged sword but Dear was a must draft and I am glad they brought him in at #56. Seems about right.
His dad played about multiple seasons in the VFL reserves, so I am sure he can be under no illusions.
A strict one B. Ryan policy...😂😂😂