How is Chol a 'great stop gap and handy partner for Lewis'? He's barely played any senior footy this season in a Gold Coast side that finished 15th on the ladder and Gold Coast will be the second club to have formed the view that Mabior is not up to playing good consistent senior footy. I would far prefer Kosi, who while he has his own issues, plays with far more intent than Chol ever has and has shown some capacity to play better when Mitch Lewis is there. And we'd have to trade for Chol, which cancels out whatever we'd get for Kosi.
As for Ben McKay, looking at the defensive performance of the leading defenders in the game (as recently posted by HI), Blanck sits right alongside Ben McKay. He’s also pretty much on par with much higher rated players such as Ratugolea, Alex Pearce and Jack Payne. The point is, as HI then noted, that McKay doesn’t really improve on our main lockdown defender. Why wouldn’t we stick with Blanck? He’s only done the one pre-season, our fitness guy, Peter Burge, loves his athletic profile and I may be wrong, but in a struggling team, I don’t think he got touched up by an opponent once this year. He’ll never be Darcy Moore, but in a year or two, he could be that guy that you just have confidence in locking down on the opposition’s key forward. And he’s young and cheap. Throwing big money and a long-term contract at Ben McKay smacks of desperation, is also perhaps misreading just how close to contending we are and is a real recipe for buyer’s regret. I'd rather back in Blanck and give Jeka an opportunity.
Thankfully Liam Henry selected the Saints. One of the most outside players the game's ever seen and not a good kick, despite most of his possessions being uncontested. We need to be very careful that some improvement in the back half of the 2023 season sees us shift our focus to more experienced players - we aren't yet ready for that.
With Chad injured and Brockman returning to Perth, we have a glaring small forward hole, especially given that this will be Punky's last season you'd think.
Kosi is a required player about to enter his prime as a key position player. One who we gave much opportunity to and spent plenty of resources on developing to the detriment of others. Make Richmond cough up!
Like Chol. He's a little stiff the Suns had King and Lukosius fit and firing in 2023. Otherwise he would have played more than 8 games. He is not an A grader but he is better than our current #2 and #3 talls and would be an upgrade on what we have
McKay. Same he is an upgrade on Blanck and a good addition. He provides better support to Sis and at 26 years of age will inject a little more experience but not be too old. For a big guy he's coming into his prime. As for Blanck - he's solid and developing and will be better over time.
These are both pretty good list management calls in an environment where there's not a lot available and the Hawks have definite holes. We ranked 16th points for and points against...so nobody can argue we don't have major issues given where the midfield ranked
Perhaps they are an upgrade, but it seems that we're spending the money on something because it's available (and we have the money), rather than getting in what we really want. Neither McKay nor Chol are Lake, Hale, Gibson or Burgoyne. McKay's played 70 games in 7 years and Chol's been a reserves player for much of his career. Just because there's not a lot available, doesn't mean we just take what is available.
Me thinks we dodged a bullet in missing out on Mckay. Not sure about Chol either. There must be reasons why 2 teams decided Chol isn’t for them. I dont think the Suns will play hard ball on a trade for Chol. Hawks should ask for current Tigers picks 25 & 44 & 62 for Hawks 48 & 77 for Kosi (which will slide anyway). It is a bit of a worry that NO ONE wants to join the Hawks, perhaps the continuity of where we play week to week and what will happen after our Tassie exit is a factor. Jeka needs to be kept and have a BIG year.
Trading is always a risk. The goal is to make the team better. Both will do that.
McKay will make Sicily better and the combo with Dimma will give us a Top 8 backline. Folks are really discounting this guy...maybe because plays for North but he's in the same bracket as Sam Collins, Liam Jones, Zerk-Thatcher, Jack Buckley, Doedee etc. All would make the Hawks better.
Chol is less exciting but he is very solid. At 26 = the right age. You have to wonder about Gold Coast. Markov could not get a game but he's a fixture at Collingwood. Lewis will struggle without better support. DGB is a third tall. Ryan is a BH player. You would pick Chol ahead of both.
You're dead right, it is a risk. Even when we picked up Lake, he'd had a very ordinary year and had been played as a forward some of the time. You're also right that McKay does make us better, just hope we don't pay overs for him though. That's a good point re Gold Coast Frank. You can add Peter Wright and Jarrad Lyons to that list. And yes, Chol is certainly no worse than Kosi or Ryan and if the pick we get for Kosi is used on Chol, it's a swap that we would at least break even on.
I’m starting to think all of the pre trade period gossip is a smoke screen for what the Hawks are really cooking in the background. Can’t wait to see what gets done
With Kosi asking for a trade, it may have upset the planning for 2024, taking into account a contract was offered to him.
I wonder if this may change the draft option for us to look at with Daniel Curtin as the best tall forward (outside of Walters GC academy), assuming WC take Reid at No. 1. The other piece of the draft jigsaw is what compensation North end up with.
On Chol, looking at his performance this year in the VFL season.
6 - Frankston
5 - BH*
4 - Port/BH
3 - Willy/Werr
2 - Sandy/Dogs/Ess/Lions
1 - Bullants/Swans/Lions*
0 - Cats/Giants
* Finals
36 goals
Aside from BH, the other teams at the top of the list are stand alone VFL teams. As has been acknowledged, the standard of these games don’t make for a genuine comparison to AFL.
This discussion brings to mind the “old story” of opposition supporters (& clubs) who fall for players who play well against them eg. Lobb/Dogs. (Our need is different.)
The other issue that Chol brings to mind is “playing to contract years” ie. players who perform to the best in the first & last years of their contracts to “justify or confirm” their position. Logic says that GC will be looking to move on 1-2 from their lower list eg. Chol or Burgess with their academy players coming in.
There is definitely a need to look to address this position - tall forward - but is it a short-term or long term strategy?
In the short term one who may benefit from Kosi’s call is Jeka.
The last cliche to keep in mind for for the draft period - ”Fools rush in where angels fear to tread.” 😉
It's not like Kosi was always your fav player but solid over the time, sometimes a lot better than others. Kosi is a more vigourous contestor than Chol so not sure we will gain a huge amount if we land him. Ryan, Chol, Fergus, DGB as backups to Lewis until we find someone really good. Maybe Dursma or Caddy in draft as forwards...
Like Caddy. But he's a kid and will take at least 3 to 4 seasons to be the player he can be
Duursma is undersized to be a key forward. He's maybe a third tall in the AFL
Chol is an upgrade on what we have. That's doesn't mean he will always be better but for right now he will add more than Ryan or DGB can. Fergus is not an AFL player.
Like Kosi but we don't rate him as highly as the Tigers...who basically only have Lynch and not much else.
How is Chol a 'great stop gap and handy partner for Lewis'? He's barely played any senior footy this season in a Gold Coast side that finished 15th on the ladder and Gold Coast will be the second club to have formed the view that Mabior is not up to playing good consistent senior footy. I would far prefer Kosi, who while he has his own issues, plays with far more intent than Chol ever has and has shown some capacity to play better when Mitch Lewis is there. And we'd have to trade for Chol, which cancels out whatever we'd get for Kosi.
As for Ben McKay, looking at the defensive performance of the leading defenders in the game (as recently posted by HI), Blanck sits right alongside Ben McKay. He’s also pretty much on par with much higher rated players such as Ratugolea, Alex Pearce and Jack Payne. The point is, as HI then noted, that McKay doesn’t really improve on our main lockdown defender. Why wouldn’t we stick with Blanck? He’s only done the one pre-season, our fitness guy, Peter Burge, loves his athletic profile and I may be wrong, but in a struggling team, I don’t think he got touched up by an opponent once this year. He’ll never be Darcy Moore, but in a year or two, he could be that guy that you just have confidence in locking down on the opposition’s key forward. And he’s young and cheap. Throwing big money and a long-term contract at Ben McKay smacks of desperation, is also perhaps misreading just how close to contending we are and is a real recipe for buyer’s regret. I'd rather back in Blanck and give Jeka an opportunity.
Thankfully Liam Henry selected the Saints. One of the most outside players the game's ever seen and not a good kick, despite most of his possessions being uncontested. We need to be very careful that some improvement in the back half of the 2023 season sees us shift our focus to more experienced players - we aren't yet ready for that.
With Chad injured and Brockman returning to Perth, we have a glaring small forward hole, especially given that this will be Punky's last season you'd think.
Kosi is a required player about to enter his prime as a key position player. One who we gave much opportunity to and spent plenty of resources on developing to the detriment of others. Make Richmond cough up!
Like Chol. He's a little stiff the Suns had King and Lukosius fit and firing in 2023. Otherwise he would have played more than 8 games. He is not an A grader but he is better than our current #2 and #3 talls and would be an upgrade on what we have
McKay. Same he is an upgrade on Blanck and a good addition. He provides better support to Sis and at 26 years of age will inject a little more experience but not be too old. For a big guy he's coming into his prime. As for Blanck - he's solid and developing and will be better over time.
These are both pretty good list management calls in an environment where there's not a lot available and the Hawks have definite holes. We ranked 16th points for and points against...so nobody can argue we don't have major issues given where the midfield ranked
Perhaps they are an upgrade, but it seems that we're spending the money on something because it's available (and we have the money), rather than getting in what we really want. Neither McKay nor Chol are Lake, Hale, Gibson or Burgoyne. McKay's played 70 games in 7 years and Chol's been a reserves player for much of his career. Just because there's not a lot available, doesn't mean we just take what is available.
Me thinks we dodged a bullet in missing out on Mckay. Not sure about Chol either. There must be reasons why 2 teams decided Chol isn’t for them. I dont think the Suns will play hard ball on a trade for Chol. Hawks should ask for current Tigers picks 25 & 44 & 62 for Hawks 48 & 77 for Kosi (which will slide anyway). It is a bit of a worry that NO ONE wants to join the Hawks, perhaps the continuity of where we play week to week and what will happen after our Tassie exit is a factor. Jeka needs to be kept and have a BIG year.
Trading is always a risk. The goal is to make the team better. Both will do that.
McKay will make Sicily better and the combo with Dimma will give us a Top 8 backline. Folks are really discounting this guy...maybe because plays for North but he's in the same bracket as Sam Collins, Liam Jones, Zerk-Thatcher, Jack Buckley, Doedee etc. All would make the Hawks better.
Chol is less exciting but he is very solid. At 26 = the right age. You have to wonder about Gold Coast. Markov could not get a game but he's a fixture at Collingwood. Lewis will struggle without better support. DGB is a third tall. Ryan is a BH player. You would pick Chol ahead of both.
You're dead right, it is a risk. Even when we picked up Lake, he'd had a very ordinary year and had been played as a forward some of the time. You're also right that McKay does make us better, just hope we don't pay overs for him though. That's a good point re Gold Coast Frank. You can add Peter Wright and Jarrad Lyons to that list. And yes, Chol is certainly no worse than Kosi or Ryan and if the pick we get for Kosi is used on Chol, it's a swap that we would at least break even on.
I’m starting to think all of the pre trade period gossip is a smoke screen for what the Hawks are really cooking in the background. Can’t wait to see what gets done
Hope you are correct Adam
With Kosi asking for a trade, it may have upset the planning for 2024, taking into account a contract was offered to him.
I wonder if this may change the draft option for us to look at with Daniel Curtin as the best tall forward (outside of Walters GC academy), assuming WC take Reid at No. 1. The other piece of the draft jigsaw is what compensation North end up with.
On Chol, looking at his performance this year in the VFL season.
6 - Frankston
5 - BH*
4 - Port/BH
3 - Willy/Werr
2 - Sandy/Dogs/Ess/Lions
1 - Bullants/Swans/Lions*
0 - Cats/Giants
* Finals
36 goals
Aside from BH, the other teams at the top of the list are stand alone VFL teams. As has been acknowledged, the standard of these games don’t make for a genuine comparison to AFL.
This discussion brings to mind the “old story” of opposition supporters (& clubs) who fall for players who play well against them eg. Lobb/Dogs. (Our need is different.)
The other issue that Chol brings to mind is “playing to contract years” ie. players who perform to the best in the first & last years of their contracts to “justify or confirm” their position. Logic says that GC will be looking to move on 1-2 from their lower list eg. Chol or Burgess with their academy players coming in.
There is definitely a need to look to address this position - tall forward - but is it a short-term or long term strategy?
In the short term one who may benefit from Kosi’s call is Jeka.
The last cliche to keep in mind for for the draft period - ”Fools rush in where angels fear to tread.” 😉
I thought Liam Henry was already going to the Saints 🤔
It's not like Kosi was always your fav player but solid over the time, sometimes a lot better than others. Kosi is a more vigourous contestor than Chol so not sure we will gain a huge amount if we land him. Ryan, Chol, Fergus, DGB as backups to Lewis until we find someone really good. Maybe Dursma or Caddy in draft as forwards...
Like Caddy. But he's a kid and will take at least 3 to 4 seasons to be the player he can be
Duursma is undersized to be a key forward. He's maybe a third tall in the AFL
Chol is an upgrade on what we have. That's doesn't mean he will always be better but for right now he will add more than Ryan or DGB can. Fergus is not an AFL player.
Like Kosi but we don't rate him as highly as the Tigers...who basically only have Lynch and not much else.