1. Setting up with 8 defender rotation provides a tactical opportunity – Predominately throughout the season we’ve used a template of 7D/6M +2R/8F, however with form of Mraz who has not warranted being dropped and the return of Battle and Weddle, we were carrying an extra defensive option. Then when in the first half, the Tigers looked to push their half forwards to the contest, our defensive structure wasn’t being challenged allowing both Sicily and Battle to spend time on the wing. This proved to be effective as both hit the scoreboard and more significantly allowed us to use the open side as an effective kick-in option as there was faith that they could both win one-on-one marking contests. As to whether it is a sustainable strategy is attached to the 2-ruck role, listening to Mitchell, it would appear unlikely to be Option A in the coming weeks but does have merit for future consideration on a horses for courses argument.
2. Return of Weddle a case of not appreciating what was missed with his overlap run – As regular readers would know the issue of our wing structure has been a source of concern, however with Weddle’s return, we regained our outside running option as he is quicker and more daring than either D’Ambrosio or Morrison. Effectively, they become the defensive player when Weddle does venture on his weaving runs forward. This also complements Impey’s dashes that are more aligned to the centre corridor than the outside of the ground which throws opposition defences into a quandary as to which path will be taken for their defensive set ups.
3. If the opposition push their forwards deep and leave both Impey and Hardwick free best of luck to them – Early on it appeared that Yze may have gone to school on our game against the Pies earlier in the year when they pushed players deep, leaving Elliott and two others as targets in the forward line that kept Hardwick busy. The Tigers couldn’t control their exits and didn’t have forward targets that warranted attention from either Impey or Hardwick, so they were able to pick their exits from half back and provide damaging entries back into our F50.
4. C. Macdonald’s pre-season preparation came to the fore – Much was made of Macdonald becoming a regular in the midfield rotation which Mitchell was quick to shut down and has held fast to for most of the season. Now with both Nash and Day out, Macdonald was released into the rotation even though the stats don’t quite reflect this. But when you break them down into halves, Macdonald went to 9/16 CBAs in the first half and he has rarely gone close to 50% CBA this season.
5. Greeves doesn’t have a midfield licence yet – Like many, with Day out and no midfielder coming in, there was an interest to see Greeves become part of the midfield rotations. The early indicator was there in the pre-game warm ups, Greeves was with the forwards rather than the mids. Given the way the game played out, after half time there was a strong expectation of Greeves getting his chance, but as was the case last week, he only went in there for the last four CBAs. Having said that, there were a couple of occasions in the game which perhaps indicate the areas of his game that need to be improved – not hangable offences in themselves, but there is a high bar. Both in the last quarter, early to the mid part of it, we had a chain of possessions on the Warne wing which left Greeves as the potential finisher of the movement – the handball from Moore was about a pace in front of him and rather than push to take it on the full, he let it bounce hoping it would bounce up for him which it didn’t and then wasn’t able to gather it before it went out of bounds. The other was a mark he dropped at the D50 line, having spent the ball before he had secured it. What was a concern here was that he put his hands to head as to if to say what have I done and didn’t make a play on the ball which the Tigers took advantage of and scored a goal. The mantra of don’t make two mistakes in a row has relevance and reflects a need to become focused on the task at hand than the emotional response to an error.
Observations:
• In game time management may mean that some players won’t miss games as they are resting in game e.g. Ginnivan; 4th quarter TOG% - Meek 18%; Newcombe 49%; Watson 55% plus Weddle playing forward in that quarter.
• Mackenzie was the one midfielder who couldn’t impose himself on the game in the first half when we were running rife through the middle. In the first quarter, he had a good look going inside F50 but elected to kick with the outside of his right foot rather than his left and was intercepted. Later in the game, he did use his left foot. He also had a couple of moments in the 2nd quarter which may be reviewed.
• B. Macdonald must improve on his kicking if he wants remain in the defensive rotation, particularly with Amon to return at some stage.
• Mraz is making the most of every opportunity. I’m not sure taking centre square contests is good for his health!
• McCabe’s changed role was a consequence of the 8-man defensive rotation as he lost his wing role and became a high half forward at 197cm with a good engine, he could be an interesting match up. His field kicking was a little off hitting leading targets going inside F50. Being able to convert from 50m and the angle is a tick to his game. Even the one later where he fell short wasn’t a terrible choice either.
• Gunston was quick to realise that the Tigers were flooding back to block his leading lanes and probably ventured higher than he had for most of the season, allowing Lewis space to work in with a mismatch on Balta who is prepared to give a long leash to his opponents.
• Meek looked to enjoy a player of similar ilk to himself and had a good around the ground impact on the game, particularly in general play where he gave the first option at all times.
• Even with Watson and Lewis both kicking 5 goals, we still had 10 goal kickers which is a nice spread.
• Tackle count by quarter – 13/12; 13/15; 22/11; 20/12 (68/50). Given the way the game played out, the tackle count reflected a commitment to pressure the opposition.
• Disposal count: 118/81; 110/57; 118/88; 85/106 (431/329). The slight issue here was 230/201 kick/handball ratio – this is higher than usual. The 3rd quarter looks to have created the imbalance.
• TOG % Bottom 5 (plus rucks): Ginnivan 41%; Meek 65%; Greeves 67%; BMacdonald 70%; McCabe 72%; Mackenzie 73%; Newcombe & Watson 74% (Gunston 93% highest – unusual for a forward to be the highest.)
Chol (5/19/2) Mraz (4/15/1) Greeves (4/15/0) Watson (4/15/0) Moore (3/11/0)
(D’Ambrosio 1 centre clearance)
27 CBAs/11 clearances (Opposition:11 Neutral:5)
Quarter: 2/4; 5/2; 2/2; 2/3
With Newcombe's 4th quarter TOG 49% Ward led the CBAs, however Newcombe still led the centre clearances. The pre-season work of C. Macdonald came to the fore today with Day & Nash out, given he played forward for the latter part of 4th quarter. Whilst he didn't register a CC, he was clean around these contests providing opportunities for others. It looks as though Greeves is yet to earn the full trust of the coaches, it was really a 4-player rotation with Moore and Watson going in for cameos. For a dominant scoreboard, the CC were equal reflecting the pressure around the contest that generated turnover scores. Mraz was certainly an enthusiastic chop out for Meek in the last quarter. Rucks combined had 4 CCs, given D'Ambrosio had another, the inside mids had 6 CCs.
Watch for the season
Gunston 1 goals – 50m penalty
Issue for the week:
Playing another side at the bottom of the ladder, there may be a want to rest players and to try a couple more tactics, but at the same time, you don’t want to mess with the flow of the team in the lead up to a couple of key games and create some poor habits. At times, there was wastefulness in the way we moved the ball at times, and this was before the last quarter which was an in time experimental period.
Gunners was the best player at the club for last 18 months. He definitely plays on and goes out when he wants to, which won’t be at seasons end. If we win flag he might call it. Won’t if we don’t.
Next year for Gunston might mirror Breust's final year, and if that writing is on the wall, I'm not sure Gunners will have the motivation to go through another pre-season.
No player gets to choose his departure, it has to be the club, but in that decision, there must be the greatest of respect paid to greats such as Gunners. If the rumours are correct that Mitch Lewis is poised to re-sign and Ben King is coming to Hawthorn, the only explanation can be that Gunners is retiring at season's end. King replacing Gunners is logical. How good would it be to send Gunners off with a flag.
Age and injuries will make it impractical for him to play enough games next year IMHO. But I agree - he gets to choose but we need King or equivalent to step in.
Ideally Gunston will keep on going as a quasi playing coach/captain of the forward line. Dear needs him and imagine how much more of a player King could be learning from Gunners.
With Nash out and a real possibility that he won't be seen again this season, Connor Mac is now a critical piece as we move into the back end of the season, and it was good to see his role reshaped to include more midfield time. Our top three midfielders - Ward, Jai and Day - are genuine quality. While MacKenzie has developed this season, he still lacks consistency both in games and from game to game, which can make our midfield a little thin. Adjusting CMac's role to one which is truly a forward / mid role will be an important element of our September push.
While Reeves played a role for the bulk of the season, his absence has in some ways been a blessing in that it has given us an opportunity to look at alternative options for the second ruck. Every time Mabior goes into the ruck, he looks dangerous and has a real ability to take possession and use the ball effectively, possibly better than any other ruck in the competition. It was also interesting to see Mraz ruck in Q4 and while it was a little heart in mouth up against Nankervis, who was more gentle with Noah than expected, he was effective at centre bounces and was an option around the ground. Perhaps this is how Mraz remains in the 23 - he can chop out down back, pinch hit in the ruck and even spend time forward as he did against Melbourne - it certainly provides a great deal of flexibility. Is a Mraz, Chol, Meek combo better than Reeves and Meek? It's a question that is yet to be answered. Aside from the first half against Melbourne, Meek has played his best footy as the main ruckman in recent weeks.
Mick's points on Greaves are fair and well made, but this week, Merrett aside, the opposition midfield will include a number of players he played with and against last year - Robey and Sharp most notably. This may be a good opportunity to give Jai a rest and see what role Greaves could play with some more midfield time. There is an interesting article on the AFL website today where he talks about doing the work to improve his running capability. It's not entirely clear whether the knock on him is his speed or his endurance, or perhaps both. While he's not quick, he is faster than Hustwaite and doesn't appear to be any slower than Essendon's first round selection, Dyson Sharp. Developing his endurance is likely the key, but it would be good to see him get more than a midfield cameo this week.
The other wing spot (non-Massimo wing) remains a work in progress. Playing each of Massimo and Morrison does leave us with two wingers that lack speed. While Harry has been good this past month and works well to get back in support, he's not our first choice for the other wing. But it's not clear who is. With no Nash, and Amon out for several weeks, there are two spots to be filled in our 23 and these ought to be filled with a mind on players who could play this wing role. It would thus be good to see McCabe get more time on the wing this week. While Weddle has some warts to iron out, he is a real point of difference and makes our team look a lot better, while at the same time presenting real concern for the opposition.
Aside from the game, it's been great to read that Mitch Lewis's re-signing seems to be imminent and that there are some questions regarding Gunston's future. If King is not being over paid and he comes as a free agent where GCS takes the compensation draft pick rather than forcing a trade with us, he is an ideal replacement for Gunners. You'd also hope that at our club and with our system that he could be more than the player he is with the Suns.
Mabior always looks good Rucking in the Centre, adding some X Factor. I don’t want to see Mraz rucking again either, gotta keep him healthy but I love his enthusiasm for any role he is asked to play.
On the ruck option, listening to Sam he often refers to the point that the 23rd player only plays around 50% TOG and is hard to manage. This is where the cost/benefit assessment comes in and it appears that the two ruck option is the preferred way to address this.
Like you, Mraz in the ruck was a little heart in mouth - fortunately a couple of times he wasn’t up against Nankervis. I’m not sure he is a solid option forward as his kicking technique is still a work in progress. I think he 0/4 from set shots as he missed his chances against Melbourne as well.
On Greeves, I understand the logic of playing in the midfield this week, but I’m also of the view that AFL games aren’t development opportunities until the win is well and truly banked (nor now gifted unlike the early Mitchell years). If Essendon were a better side, would their draftees being playing as often as they have this year?
Personally, if the available position is a high half forward role, I’d like to see Nairn given another opportunity as this was the role he played at U/18 level.
That's a fair point re Greaves Mick. On Nairn, I thought that was one of his best games for Box Hill on the weekend. If Ginnivan misses and we opt to rest one other player, assuming Day comes back, there will be one spot vacant. It will be interesting to see if the selectors go with Finn or with another youngster such as Nairn or even Anderson for a debut.
Just my thoughts on the Mitch lewis, Ben King talk. I am a bit of a nostalgia guy and along with my son and daughter we have over the years religiously followed some omens on game day. When we are on the way to a game if we spot a Hawthorn supporter wearing the colours before an opposition supporter, that is an omen for a Hawthorn win...Now, I don't want to mozz other supporters, but for us the accuracy of the omen is above the 80% mark. The other key omen is the first to 10 - If Hawthorn gets to 10 goals before the opposition, then Hawthorn will win. Again, not wnating to mozz other supporters, the accuracy of this omen is also above 80%. So, omens are big in out family and so we believe that Mitch Lews will remain at the club and we believe this because of the omen that took place back in 2016. At the end of the 2016 season, Hawthorn said goodbye to Sam Mitchell and Jordan Lewis, great champions and memebers of our 'three-peat' team. In the national draft, with pick 76 Hawthorn selected Mitchell Lewis. At the time i said how ironic that the club loses a Mitchell and a Lewis and the draft gives us back a Mitchell Lewis! For this reason, he cannot go anywhere -It was destiny that Mitch would come to Hawthorn and will stay at Hawthorn!!
Some great conversation below. People don’t always have to agree, everyone is entitled to an opinion, A well thought out discussion allows onlookers to learn. It’s evident that everyone who writes for HI and Subscribers all want the same thing, which is continual success for our magnificent club and for our boys to proudly wear our colours and to become the very best footballers they can be. #GoHawks
See his numbers! 7 score involvements. <snark> If a certain midfielder did that he'd be spoken about here as our next Brownlow </end snark>
With him and Mraz we have a couple of stars. Love a draft slider that becomes a star. For Mraz - and Dalton too who I think will be a star - it was injuries. Lots of love to our drafting team.
#playthekids. I got publicly humiliated by HI for saying we we need to play the kids - because their ceiling is untested and we have seen enough from some others to have a fair idea of their ceiling and its not high enough - and here we are :-)
Not sure we can win the flag this year. but we can keep our >= 1 per decade streak going with the help of these kids for sure.
Also re forwards - the success of Gunston has blinded many to the need to replace him urgently. Age catches up and the cliff arrives suddenly. Whether or not he retires he needs replacing now. That's why the King chase is on.
Also, for all Lewis' efforts up the ground he only impacts the scoreboard when in F50 and he needs to start from there - too often he arrives too late and is not at the contest. On Sunday he notably was starting deeper and Gunston higher. We saw the impact on both.
As many have said, King and Lewis can co-exist positionally. Add Chol and that's the forward line for the next 2-3 years. Dear is cover - at least until age catches up with Chol. I do worry though about the lack of pressure from both Lewis and King. I would prefer an in-form Dear + King to Lewis + King for that reason. Plus Chol who can do everything.
So glad the casual racism re Chol has quietened ("laconic" dog whistles etc) at least for now.
For clarity, Paddo, I don't think it's fair to say you were publicly humiliated by HI. We disagreed with your position on playing the younger players at the start of the year.
Early in the season, you were advocating for Ward and Mackenzie to be dropped in favour of giving the kids more opportunities. My view was that the younger players weren't ready at that stage, and the team wasn't in a position to carry that level of development.
That's changed now, along with injuries to key players, which is why we're seeing more opportunities for them.
I also think Ward and Mackenzie have justified their places. Both have had very good seasons, with Ward in particular playing a very important role in the side.
Where I struggle with your argument is your assessment of Ward. It feels like there's a reluctance to acknowledge the season he's having, while at the same time some very inexperienced players are being labelled as stars after only a handful of games. A little consistency in that evaluation would be helpful.
That said, there are parts of your comment I completely agree with. Mraz has looked incredibly promising, especially for a key-position player only a few games into his career. I would still urge a bit of caution, though. We've seen before how quickly excitement can get ahead of reality. I remember the reaction after DGB's game against GWS, and some of the calls being made at that point were well ahead of where he actually was as a player.
The really exciting outcome of the failed Merrett trade was the shift in list-management strategy that followed. I'm with you on the praise for the recruiting team. To debut seven players while sitting third on the ladder is an outstanding achievement, and players such as Mraz, Nairn, Dalton, McCabe and Greeves have all shown signs that they can become long-term senior contributors.
Appreciate your passion and support, even if we don't always agree haha. Go Hawks!
Bit harsh to say HI engaged in public humiliation! I think one of the reasons we've seen more debutants is the spate of injuries, both to best 23 players and to players who would typically be first in line to replace them. For example, had Scrimshaw been available, it's quite likely that we may not have seen Noah at all. Similarly, Butler was injured when Wizard was suspended and it would likely been him who replaced the Wiz at that time. To be third on the ladder and to have played 7 debutants is quite remarkable. It's unlikely that all 7 will develop into quality senior players, but we can expect that some will. We've also not seen our second selection in last year's draft in Schubert yet. The other good thing is that with luck, Box Hill will play finals which will give us an opportunity to see a number of the youngsters against quality reserves opposition in finals. As for this year's flag Paddo, we need a bit to go right, but we can win it.
What was learnt?
1. Setting up with 8 defender rotation provides a tactical opportunity – Predominately throughout the season we’ve used a template of 7D/6M +2R/8F, however with form of Mraz who has not warranted being dropped and the return of Battle and Weddle, we were carrying an extra defensive option. Then when in the first half, the Tigers looked to push their half forwards to the contest, our defensive structure wasn’t being challenged allowing both Sicily and Battle to spend time on the wing. This proved to be effective as both hit the scoreboard and more significantly allowed us to use the open side as an effective kick-in option as there was faith that they could both win one-on-one marking contests. As to whether it is a sustainable strategy is attached to the 2-ruck role, listening to Mitchell, it would appear unlikely to be Option A in the coming weeks but does have merit for future consideration on a horses for courses argument.
2. Return of Weddle a case of not appreciating what was missed with his overlap run – As regular readers would know the issue of our wing structure has been a source of concern, however with Weddle’s return, we regained our outside running option as he is quicker and more daring than either D’Ambrosio or Morrison. Effectively, they become the defensive player when Weddle does venture on his weaving runs forward. This also complements Impey’s dashes that are more aligned to the centre corridor than the outside of the ground which throws opposition defences into a quandary as to which path will be taken for their defensive set ups.
3. If the opposition push their forwards deep and leave both Impey and Hardwick free best of luck to them – Early on it appeared that Yze may have gone to school on our game against the Pies earlier in the year when they pushed players deep, leaving Elliott and two others as targets in the forward line that kept Hardwick busy. The Tigers couldn’t control their exits and didn’t have forward targets that warranted attention from either Impey or Hardwick, so they were able to pick their exits from half back and provide damaging entries back into our F50.
4. C. Macdonald’s pre-season preparation came to the fore – Much was made of Macdonald becoming a regular in the midfield rotation which Mitchell was quick to shut down and has held fast to for most of the season. Now with both Nash and Day out, Macdonald was released into the rotation even though the stats don’t quite reflect this. But when you break them down into halves, Macdonald went to 9/16 CBAs in the first half and he has rarely gone close to 50% CBA this season.
5. Greeves doesn’t have a midfield licence yet – Like many, with Day out and no midfielder coming in, there was an interest to see Greeves become part of the midfield rotations. The early indicator was there in the pre-game warm ups, Greeves was with the forwards rather than the mids. Given the way the game played out, after half time there was a strong expectation of Greeves getting his chance, but as was the case last week, he only went in there for the last four CBAs. Having said that, there were a couple of occasions in the game which perhaps indicate the areas of his game that need to be improved – not hangable offences in themselves, but there is a high bar. Both in the last quarter, early to the mid part of it, we had a chain of possessions on the Warne wing which left Greeves as the potential finisher of the movement – the handball from Moore was about a pace in front of him and rather than push to take it on the full, he let it bounce hoping it would bounce up for him which it didn’t and then wasn’t able to gather it before it went out of bounds. The other was a mark he dropped at the D50 line, having spent the ball before he had secured it. What was a concern here was that he put his hands to head as to if to say what have I done and didn’t make a play on the ball which the Tigers took advantage of and scored a goal. The mantra of don’t make two mistakes in a row has relevance and reflects a need to become focused on the task at hand than the emotional response to an error.
Observations:
• In game time management may mean that some players won’t miss games as they are resting in game e.g. Ginnivan; 4th quarter TOG% - Meek 18%; Newcombe 49%; Watson 55% plus Weddle playing forward in that quarter.
• Mackenzie was the one midfielder who couldn’t impose himself on the game in the first half when we were running rife through the middle. In the first quarter, he had a good look going inside F50 but elected to kick with the outside of his right foot rather than his left and was intercepted. Later in the game, he did use his left foot. He also had a couple of moments in the 2nd quarter which may be reviewed.
• B. Macdonald must improve on his kicking if he wants remain in the defensive rotation, particularly with Amon to return at some stage.
• Mraz is making the most of every opportunity. I’m not sure taking centre square contests is good for his health!
• McCabe’s changed role was a consequence of the 8-man defensive rotation as he lost his wing role and became a high half forward at 197cm with a good engine, he could be an interesting match up. His field kicking was a little off hitting leading targets going inside F50. Being able to convert from 50m and the angle is a tick to his game. Even the one later where he fell short wasn’t a terrible choice either.
• Gunston was quick to realise that the Tigers were flooding back to block his leading lanes and probably ventured higher than he had for most of the season, allowing Lewis space to work in with a mismatch on Balta who is prepared to give a long leash to his opponents.
• Meek looked to enjoy a player of similar ilk to himself and had a good around the ground impact on the game, particularly in general play where he gave the first option at all times.
• Even with Watson and Lewis both kicking 5 goals, we still had 10 goal kickers which is a nice spread.
• 0 disposals quarters – 4th : Newcombe (screen shot the AFL app!)
• Tackle count by quarter – 13/12; 13/15; 22/11; 20/12 (68/50). Given the way the game played out, the tackle count reflected a commitment to pressure the opposition.
• I50 count/score by quarter 14/7 (2.2/2.0); 12/13 (3.1/0.1); 16/11 (5.4/2.2); 15/14 (5.6/2.0)
• Disposal count: 118/81; 110/57; 118/88; 85/106 (431/329). The slight issue here was 230/201 kick/handball ratio – this is higher than usual. The 3rd quarter looks to have created the imbalance.
• TOG % Bottom 5 (plus rucks): Ginnivan 41%; Meek 65%; Greeves 67%; BMacdonald 70%; McCabe 72%; Mackenzie 73%; Newcombe & Watson 74% (Gunston 93% highest – unusual for a forward to be the highest.)
• Kicking efficiency (DE): Hardwick 93%/14 (95); Battle 92%/13 (85); Impey 89%/26 (88); Morrison 86%/7 (95); Barrass 86%/7 (93)
Moore 42%/12 (71); Mraz 46%/13 (56); Newcombe 50%/10 (63); Lewis 55%/11 (62); Greeves 57%/7 (71)
Starting 4: (CBA/% total CBA/CC)
1st Qrt.: Meek (18/67/1) Newcombe (19/70/3) Ward (20/74/1) Mackenzie (19/70/2)
2nd Qrt: Meek Newcombe Ward Macdonald (12/44/0)
3rd Qrt: Meek Newcombe Ward Mackenzie
4th Qrt: Meek Newcombe Mackenzie Macdonald
Chol (5/19/2) Mraz (4/15/1) Greeves (4/15/0) Watson (4/15/0) Moore (3/11/0)
(D’Ambrosio 1 centre clearance)
27 CBAs/11 clearances (Opposition:11 Neutral:5)
Quarter: 2/4; 5/2; 2/2; 2/3
With Newcombe's 4th quarter TOG 49% Ward led the CBAs, however Newcombe still led the centre clearances. The pre-season work of C. Macdonald came to the fore today with Day & Nash out, given he played forward for the latter part of 4th quarter. Whilst he didn't register a CC, he was clean around these contests providing opportunities for others. It looks as though Greeves is yet to earn the full trust of the coaches, it was really a 4-player rotation with Moore and Watson going in for cameos. For a dominant scoreboard, the CC were equal reflecting the pressure around the contest that generated turnover scores. Mraz was certainly an enthusiastic chop out for Meek in the last quarter. Rucks combined had 4 CCs, given D'Ambrosio had another, the inside mids had 6 CCs.
Watch for the season
Gunston 1 goals – 50m penalty
Issue for the week:
Playing another side at the bottom of the ladder, there may be a want to rest players and to try a couple more tactics, but at the same time, you don’t want to mess with the flow of the team in the lead up to a couple of key games and create some poor habits. At times, there was wastefulness in the way we moved the ball at times, and this was before the last quarter which was an in time experimental period.
Gunners was the best player at the club for last 18 months. He definitely plays on and goes out when he wants to, which won’t be at seasons end. If we win flag he might call it. Won’t if we don’t.
Next year for Gunston might mirror Breust's final year, and if that writing is on the wall, I'm not sure Gunners will have the motivation to go through another pre-season.
No player gets to choose his departure, it has to be the club, but in that decision, there must be the greatest of respect paid to greats such as Gunners. If the rumours are correct that Mitch Lewis is poised to re-sign and Ben King is coming to Hawthorn, the only explanation can be that Gunners is retiring at season's end. King replacing Gunners is logical. How good would it be to send Gunners off with a flag.
A Flag for Gunners, that would be great - how about a goal kicking coaching role as well.
If Michael Tuck couldn’t choose when his career ended, then Gunston won’t have this choice left to him.
Crawford was the fairly tale career ending story.
Age and injuries will make it impractical for him to play enough games next year IMHO. But I agree - he gets to choose but we need King or equivalent to step in.
Ideally Gunston will keep on going as a quasi playing coach/captain of the forward line. Dear needs him and imagine how much more of a player King could be learning from Gunners.
With Nash out and a real possibility that he won't be seen again this season, Connor Mac is now a critical piece as we move into the back end of the season, and it was good to see his role reshaped to include more midfield time. Our top three midfielders - Ward, Jai and Day - are genuine quality. While MacKenzie has developed this season, he still lacks consistency both in games and from game to game, which can make our midfield a little thin. Adjusting CMac's role to one which is truly a forward / mid role will be an important element of our September push.
While Reeves played a role for the bulk of the season, his absence has in some ways been a blessing in that it has given us an opportunity to look at alternative options for the second ruck. Every time Mabior goes into the ruck, he looks dangerous and has a real ability to take possession and use the ball effectively, possibly better than any other ruck in the competition. It was also interesting to see Mraz ruck in Q4 and while it was a little heart in mouth up against Nankervis, who was more gentle with Noah than expected, he was effective at centre bounces and was an option around the ground. Perhaps this is how Mraz remains in the 23 - he can chop out down back, pinch hit in the ruck and even spend time forward as he did against Melbourne - it certainly provides a great deal of flexibility. Is a Mraz, Chol, Meek combo better than Reeves and Meek? It's a question that is yet to be answered. Aside from the first half against Melbourne, Meek has played his best footy as the main ruckman in recent weeks.
Mick's points on Greaves are fair and well made, but this week, Merrett aside, the opposition midfield will include a number of players he played with and against last year - Robey and Sharp most notably. This may be a good opportunity to give Jai a rest and see what role Greaves could play with some more midfield time. There is an interesting article on the AFL website today where he talks about doing the work to improve his running capability. It's not entirely clear whether the knock on him is his speed or his endurance, or perhaps both. While he's not quick, he is faster than Hustwaite and doesn't appear to be any slower than Essendon's first round selection, Dyson Sharp. Developing his endurance is likely the key, but it would be good to see him get more than a midfield cameo this week.
The other wing spot (non-Massimo wing) remains a work in progress. Playing each of Massimo and Morrison does leave us with two wingers that lack speed. While Harry has been good this past month and works well to get back in support, he's not our first choice for the other wing. But it's not clear who is. With no Nash, and Amon out for several weeks, there are two spots to be filled in our 23 and these ought to be filled with a mind on players who could play this wing role. It would thus be good to see McCabe get more time on the wing this week. While Weddle has some warts to iron out, he is a real point of difference and makes our team look a lot better, while at the same time presenting real concern for the opposition.
Aside from the game, it's been great to read that Mitch Lewis's re-signing seems to be imminent and that there are some questions regarding Gunston's future. If King is not being over paid and he comes as a free agent where GCS takes the compensation draft pick rather than forcing a trade with us, he is an ideal replacement for Gunners. You'd also hope that at our club and with our system that he could be more than the player he is with the Suns.
Mabior always looks good Rucking in the Centre, adding some X Factor. I don’t want to see Mraz rucking again either, gotta keep him healthy but I love his enthusiasm for any role he is asked to play.
On the ruck option, listening to Sam he often refers to the point that the 23rd player only plays around 50% TOG and is hard to manage. This is where the cost/benefit assessment comes in and it appears that the two ruck option is the preferred way to address this.
Like you, Mraz in the ruck was a little heart in mouth - fortunately a couple of times he wasn’t up against Nankervis. I’m not sure he is a solid option forward as his kicking technique is still a work in progress. I think he 0/4 from set shots as he missed his chances against Melbourne as well.
On Greeves, I understand the logic of playing in the midfield this week, but I’m also of the view that AFL games aren’t development opportunities until the win is well and truly banked (nor now gifted unlike the early Mitchell years). If Essendon were a better side, would their draftees being playing as often as they have this year?
Personally, if the available position is a high half forward role, I’d like to see Nairn given another opportunity as this was the role he played at U/18 level.
That's a fair point re Greaves Mick. On Nairn, I thought that was one of his best games for Box Hill on the weekend. If Ginnivan misses and we opt to rest one other player, assuming Day comes back, there will be one spot vacant. It will be interesting to see if the selectors go with Finn or with another youngster such as Nairn or even Anderson for a debut.
Both Lewis and King and one more year for Gunner mentoring all the forwards especially Calsh, Cam, Schu and Humpty.
Just my thoughts on the Mitch lewis, Ben King talk. I am a bit of a nostalgia guy and along with my son and daughter we have over the years religiously followed some omens on game day. When we are on the way to a game if we spot a Hawthorn supporter wearing the colours before an opposition supporter, that is an omen for a Hawthorn win...Now, I don't want to mozz other supporters, but for us the accuracy of the omen is above the 80% mark. The other key omen is the first to 10 - If Hawthorn gets to 10 goals before the opposition, then Hawthorn will win. Again, not wnating to mozz other supporters, the accuracy of this omen is also above 80%. So, omens are big in out family and so we believe that Mitch Lews will remain at the club and we believe this because of the omen that took place back in 2016. At the end of the 2016 season, Hawthorn said goodbye to Sam Mitchell and Jordan Lewis, great champions and memebers of our 'three-peat' team. In the national draft, with pick 76 Hawthorn selected Mitchell Lewis. At the time i said how ironic that the club loses a Mitchell and a Lewis and the draft gives us back a Mitchell Lewis! For this reason, he cannot go anywhere -It was destiny that Mitch would come to Hawthorn and will stay at Hawthorn!!
Some great conversation below. People don’t always have to agree, everyone is entitled to an opinion, A well thought out discussion allows onlookers to learn. It’s evident that everyone who writes for HI and Subscribers all want the same thing, which is continual success for our magnificent club and for our boys to proudly wear our colours and to become the very best footballers they can be. #GoHawks
You missed an opportunity with the Under Pressure section:
Essendon.
Coaches' votes
5 Impey Impey
4 Lewis C. Macdonald
3 C. Macdonald Lewis
2 Watson Watson
1 Battle Battle
5 week average rolling ladder
Rd For Agst
5 107 88 121.04%
6 106 81 130.30%
7 99 77 128.50%
8 98 79 123.43%
9 94 79 119.54%
10 90 90 99.56%
11 87 86 100.93%
12 88 87 101.61%
13 84 84 100.24%
14 92 85 107.49%
16 95 78 121.85%
17 98 90 109.15%
18 95 84 112.62%
19 105 79 132.66%
Both sides of the game showing significant improvement, also reflecting who we've played.
So happy for Greaves. Have loved his story and the redemption arc is in full swing. Good article here https://www.afl.com.au/news/1565973/hawthorn-hawks-huge-draft-slider-ollie-greeves-grabs-his-chance-to-rise-up
See his numbers! 7 score involvements. <snark> If a certain midfielder did that he'd be spoken about here as our next Brownlow </end snark>
With him and Mraz we have a couple of stars. Love a draft slider that becomes a star. For Mraz - and Dalton too who I think will be a star - it was injuries. Lots of love to our drafting team.
#playthekids. I got publicly humiliated by HI for saying we we need to play the kids - because their ceiling is untested and we have seen enough from some others to have a fair idea of their ceiling and its not high enough - and here we are :-)
Not sure we can win the flag this year. but we can keep our >= 1 per decade streak going with the help of these kids for sure.
Also re forwards - the success of Gunston has blinded many to the need to replace him urgently. Age catches up and the cliff arrives suddenly. Whether or not he retires he needs replacing now. That's why the King chase is on.
Also, for all Lewis' efforts up the ground he only impacts the scoreboard when in F50 and he needs to start from there - too often he arrives too late and is not at the contest. On Sunday he notably was starting deeper and Gunston higher. We saw the impact on both.
As many have said, King and Lewis can co-exist positionally. Add Chol and that's the forward line for the next 2-3 years. Dear is cover - at least until age catches up with Chol. I do worry though about the lack of pressure from both Lewis and King. I would prefer an in-form Dear + King to Lewis + King for that reason. Plus Chol who can do everything.
So glad the casual racism re Chol has quietened ("laconic" dog whistles etc) at least for now.
For clarity, Paddo, I don't think it's fair to say you were publicly humiliated by HI. We disagreed with your position on playing the younger players at the start of the year.
Early in the season, you were advocating for Ward and Mackenzie to be dropped in favour of giving the kids more opportunities. My view was that the younger players weren't ready at that stage, and the team wasn't in a position to carry that level of development.
That's changed now, along with injuries to key players, which is why we're seeing more opportunities for them.
I also think Ward and Mackenzie have justified their places. Both have had very good seasons, with Ward in particular playing a very important role in the side.
Where I struggle with your argument is your assessment of Ward. It feels like there's a reluctance to acknowledge the season he's having, while at the same time some very inexperienced players are being labelled as stars after only a handful of games. A little consistency in that evaluation would be helpful.
That said, there are parts of your comment I completely agree with. Mraz has looked incredibly promising, especially for a key-position player only a few games into his career. I would still urge a bit of caution, though. We've seen before how quickly excitement can get ahead of reality. I remember the reaction after DGB's game against GWS, and some of the calls being made at that point were well ahead of where he actually was as a player.
The really exciting outcome of the failed Merrett trade was the shift in list-management strategy that followed. I'm with you on the praise for the recruiting team. To debut seven players while sitting third on the ladder is an outstanding achievement, and players such as Mraz, Nairn, Dalton, McCabe and Greeves have all shown signs that they can become long-term senior contributors.
Appreciate your passion and support, even if we don't always agree haha. Go Hawks!
Bit harsh to say HI engaged in public humiliation! I think one of the reasons we've seen more debutants is the spate of injuries, both to best 23 players and to players who would typically be first in line to replace them. For example, had Scrimshaw been available, it's quite likely that we may not have seen Noah at all. Similarly, Butler was injured when Wizard was suspended and it would likely been him who replaced the Wiz at that time. To be third on the ladder and to have played 7 debutants is quite remarkable. It's unlikely that all 7 will develop into quality senior players, but we can expect that some will. We've also not seen our second selection in last year's draft in Schubert yet. The other good thing is that with luck, Box Hill will play finals which will give us an opportunity to see a number of the youngsters against quality reserves opposition in finals. As for this year's flag Paddo, we need a bit to go right, but we can win it.
Entertained? Not yet.
Good to see Greaves, Mraz and McCabe out there looking they all fit in
Great to see the policy of care taken with Gunston, Watson, Ginnivan
Winners everywhere.
King and Lewis can co-exist.
I get it that Essendon does not matter.
But I still remember my first VFL game in 1965, watching them beat the Hawks by 90+.
My Dad - as was his rule - made us stay to the end.
+90 points beating would be just the ticket.